Thoughts on Elance.com

Elance is great, they have great projects. However a lot of buyers put their project on more than one site and that makes it hard to win something. When you’re new to freelancing as well, it’s hard to get people to notice you, no matter what your qualifications are.

I have been using Elance since September, with some success. Some of the asking rates ARE ridiculous (1$ per article for 50 articles? LOL). And one of my frustrations is that so many projects are never offered to anyone-they are just a waste of a connect. With these, if I am really interested in the project, I will usually wait four days and PMB the buyer, expressing that I am still interested and just want to follow up. Usually, no one responds, but a few times, I have had people write back that they found a writer elsewhere but would be interested in keeping me on a shortlist for future projects. But the jobs I have had have all been positive experiences, and for building a portfolio, Elance is a great option because of the variety. It’s a good chance to try out lots of different types of work, as well.

I have been freelancing full time since 2005. Before that, I had put in 12 years as a writer and editor with a trade magazine. I was able to make a go of it full time because of my contacts and my knowledge. I looked at elance and was horrified. It may be great for a kid right out of college, or someone with minimal experience, but for a full fledged writer it’s appalling. The fees being offered are for the most part laughable, and I can’t believe that anyone could possibly make a living taking those sorts of jobs. It it doesn’t pay at least 50 cents a word, or $60 an hour, I won’t consider it.

Build up your networks. Interact with people. Bidding on pitiful jobs isn’t the way to make a living as a freelancer.

I have just started using eLance. I’ve been a contract writer for the last eight years with the occasional full time job. I have been interested in trying my hand at freelancing, party because my last couple of jobs have been pretty close to this. I follow your site and the advice seems pretty good to me, and you mentioned a while back that bid sites, eLance in particular, were a good way to start.

To be honest working at eLance has been horrible. I have finally managed to get some work but the pay is nothing near what I would require if I were to actually depend on freelance for my bread and butter. I am making about nine dollars an hour. I have lost proposals that are just silly. The people I’ve worked with have been pretty sketchy in terms of their requirements and they are kind of looking for some instant magic nearly no wages.

In one lost bid, someone paid a writer 2,000 dollars to ghost write a 80,000 word book. This is easily a three or four month full-time proposition. I know because I’ve published four books. Publishers sometimes pay writers 10,000 plus royalties for a quickie book on a hot topic. This might result in a 45-50K word book generated from primary sources. Someone mentioned the 1 dollar for an SEO article. That’s right. There are a ton of pitches out there for SEO articles at 10 dollars an article. What is weird, is that these contracts are awarded.

When I started winning bids it was more out of a desire to see how it worked. At nine dollars an hour I would be better served doing just about anything else. I just worked the estimate for a job that was posted for 500 dollars at eLance. It would take 85 hours. At a 60 dollar an hour rate, this is about 5,000 dollars. (In my region modestly experienced writers can get contract work that pays 40+ per hour. With the indie-mark up you are looking at 60+ to reach the same hourly rate.) The posting was asking for bids below 500 dollars, which is only 10% of what it should cost. What is amazing to me is that this person will find someone to take them up on it.

I can’t figure it out really. Either people are filling in work as you mention here. Or they are finding side work to do during other work, in essence getting paid twice — but this doesn’t seem ethical to me. Or they live somewhere and in a situation that has a very low cost of living (i.e., second income, government health insurance, and low rent costs.) Or it’s a sequence of golden handcuff deals where writers just can’t deliver, but whoever has contracted them is in for it after they have started.

Largely though I am coming to the conclusion that eLance is a pretty low-grade service and is in fact destructive to the practice of freelance writing. Good writing requires time and concentration — and there is some cost to this. It is impossible to offer good service through eLance because freelancers are competing with such unrealistic demands since they are looking at paying 10% of what it really costs to write this stuff.

This is frustrating, really, because the idea of eLance is solid. I wish there was a more stringent service that was perhaps more difficult for writers to get listed in — that could match serious clients with serious writers. You’d think the Society for Technical Communicators would offer something like this. My thought is writing talent if it were managed the way Acting Talent is managed through Screen Actors Guild, that it would work well to at least verify a writer’s means and method. From the outside writing may seem glamourous, but in practice, it is work. A good end-user manual or article requires research, clear writing, editing, copy editing, and document production skills.

(After all, how can a writer really do afford to anything except copy and paste if they are paying paid a dollar or even as much as 10 bucks for an article?)

I quit using elance after having a client who wanted my bank account number to deposit payment. I refused to give the client my bank account number and elance didn’t do anything about it. I’ve landed a few projects on the site, but it seems like the clients are looking for cheap labor. The rates are ridiculously low and frankly I can’t stand writers who would work for such low rates. Cheap writers lower respectability for the craft.

Hmm, I am looking at my project calendar and finding the following jobs were a result of Elance: editing curriculum materials for a small publisher- $80 per hour. Three hour rewrite of 5 page website: $450 total project fee. I simply don’t take those low paying jobs. Easy at that. The people to work for on elance are new and small companies/publishers who do not yet have a staff writer or a “go-to” freelancer. You then become that “go to” freelancer. Easy as that.

Here’s my say on elance: don’t use it to find much of your work, and don’t lower your rates, no matter how tempting–STICK WITH YOUR RATES!

I applaud freelancewrite! Good for you.

See, I wondered about that. Lowering my rates, I mean. I don’t write per se, I edit, format and proof as well as tackling any job I think I can do. I wouldn’t say I’d take anything, but I have experience now in editing both novels and how-to manuals for a publisher who gave me a chance when I was new. I love the job, but it’s not a steady income, at least not steady enough. I edit for several companies on a freelance basis and get paid on commission by one. It’s a new publisher and I get paid every three months. Again, good work and I love it, but it’s not the best situation monetarily. I’d love to get more jobs, I’m at home and have the time, but don’t want to spend my life freelancing for a pittance.

http://www.freewebs.com/yourproedits/index.html

Elance allows you to post a few bids for free. I did that and got a steady ghostwriting gig out of it. I get paid every Saturday, and I’m fine with the money.

People will always complain about this or that. I say do what you need to do and tune out the rest.

I’ve been writing fiction for about seven years. The money has never been steady. I’ve received money, but it has never been steady. With this ghostwriting gig I appreciate the steady money and the ease of finding the job. I don’t have time to search for freelance gigs, folks. I don’t have time for the freelance rat race. I’m trying to write a novel. I found a steady gig with Elance and that’s fine.

Jolie du Pre

Good for you Jolie.

Yes elance is really good but there exists some other sites as well where membership is free and one can get un-limited projects in allmost all technologies. Please have a look at:
Interviewhelper

Thanks

I happened on elance on a suggestion from a colleague. I”m a designer with a thorough background and 15 years in the business both full time and as a freelancer. Although this is a California based company I wonder why there are so many non-USA “designers” bidding for USA jobs at a rate so low they are practically giving it away. What’s the story??

I will stick with my rates as I do quality work and have been awarded jobs through elance with USA people who do pay for quality. But like anything else on internet, you must be critical of the buyer of your services and be very very careful about giving out any bank numbers, etc. Elance works with Paypal which is fine and they also have their own escrow accounts.
So far I have been satisfied with my clients but I still question the non-USA designers trying to make our profession lower than that of a prostitute. Maybe USA dollars have more equity in their country but elance is denying the jobs in effect to those of their own country.

Bidding sites are a means of underpaying writers. Sure, someone is always willing to work for free to get a credit and that wastes the time of everyone else. Elance is a disgrace to all hard working professional writers and journalists who take pride in their work.

I’m a college student, so I love those bidding sites. I am willing to work for cheap because guess what? I need the money. There’s nothing demeaning about it. If you aren’t willing to work for cheap in order to get started, then you don’t have what it takes.

Elance is a joke. The site charges providers for their “plans” and “connects” (contacts) and “sponsors” (way to get more money out of providers, and then there’s the “fee” (percentage of the overall job”. The jobs seem “scamish” and so do the overall model. If a buyer changes his mind after 100 providers have bidded on the job, a good 200 or more “connects”, the providers loses the money and Elance gains that fat paycheck. Their model seem to be set up on milking freelancers, who bid on dummy jobs. If you check out the jobs closely, you see that the same people or individuals are posting the job. You’ll find exact wording, tone, sentence structure, etc. Be ware. Elance is NOT the way to go unless you support slave labor, or want to get scammed!

I’m with you, Jen. As a college student trying DESPERATELY to make ends meet any money looks far better than no money. I’m not sure how this lowers the credibility of professional free-lance writers, unless these professionals were also bidding on lower-paying gigs. The economy is brutal right now and volunteering at the student writing center and helping assistant professors with their dissertations, etc. just doesn’t cut it for some of us kids whose parents aren’t able to to hand us our tuition and play money with no problem. Gaining experience and being able to eat every day is wonderful to me! I’m grateful for any cash flow beyond waitressing!

I have received some work at Elance. The projects seem to be slow in coming for me as a fairly new writer. I have over 200 SEO keyword web content posts written and posted for a company that ran out of work for me after 5 months. I am still trying to get regular work.

eLance.com — outsourcing brought to a computer near you.

The problem with all of these sites is that they are open to anyone. This means that as someone in part of the developed world I don’t stand a chance. Never mind the fact that I probably have a better education and have a mastery of the english language. Most of the offers on these sites are nothing short of greedy.

Another problem that arises is the idiocy of those people handing out the contracts, which are usually vague or impossible. These people just want everything for nothing. That means that they don’t want to have to communicate effectively either.

It’s like picking up a job at a fast food joint. You expect little pay and little to no direction.

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Why choose MarketRaise compared to ordinary job sites and freelance / bidding sites?
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Feel secure that a company not a freelancer is taking care of your work.
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I am relatively new to freelance writing. While surfing on the net, I discovered Elance, and tried to break into the bid-market. Honestly speaking, the experience has been very bad. Reason-bidding usually means quoting the lowest price. I have seen people bidding 50$ for a 25 article set! How do you expect to produce quality content at that price? While it is accepted that the project may not be awarded to the lowest bidder, yet it is surprising to see the ridiculously low bids. Most of the buyers also expect the cheapest deal at Elance. Most specify the maximum rate they are willing to pay, sometimes as low as 2 dollars a piece. At this rate, sometimes the total project cost for the buyer turns out to be lower than the minimum bid amount of 50$ !

After spending a year working on Elance projects as a writer (about $18,000), I have recently concluded that “Elance is a JOKE.” (I actually found this article by searching on that string!). They STEAL your money in various ways. The site is biased toward writers who garble their verbs and adjectives. The people who run Elance are generally out of touch with the reality of business. I am soon getting off of Elance altogether.

Elance was great for me to begin with, I ignored the fact that people were getting my services at ridiculously low prices because I was building up my confidence and a portfolio. Now that I’m bidding at what I still class as low, but not insanely low, rates I’m apparently too expensive. If you do them properly, these projects work out at about 1/10 of minimum wage. I’d be better off on welfare!

Its tough for both buyers and sellers I think, just like anything else.

You (buyer and seller) have to become experienced in filtering our what’s rubbish and what not, and getting your expectation right in the beginning.

Then determine what the true value of the work you are doing / requesting is and spend your time with the right projects / suppliers.

Its never easy! But could be another useful string to your bow though in the long run.

I was referred to Elance by a group intended for networking. I understand that students need work and accept little money in return, however, it’s a risky business in the long run. Once we begin to lower the standards, it creates an expectation of lower fees for quality work and ultimately we all suffer. Students, (and anyone else) who come cheap, set a standard for future income. Not intentionally, but it will be a harsh reality that clients expect a great deal of work with very little compensation. The students who are working so hard to make a buck now might find it counterproductive in the end. There was a great article in the New York Times about this problem. We compete with each other, but if we compete to the extent we lower industry standards, we’re hurting ourselves and each other.

http://shiftingcareers.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/when-to-work-for-free/?oref=slogin

It’s very hard to work on Elance because their commissions are very high. That’s why I choose GetACoder.com, you get lots of projects there and their fees are quite reasonable. Moreover all buyers with whom I worked with were professionals and paid on time.

I can see that not everyone had a good experience. I am a full time professional writer and would love to break into the freelancing world but haven’t had much luck. Beyond the networking thing which I’m already working on, are there other sites you guys would recommend in lieu of elance?

US bidders (writers) are up against some excellent writers from around the globe. These writers are not working for ‘nothing’. They simply live in an economy where a dollar goes a long way.

There are writers as good as, or better than, many US bidders/writers. They give outstanding value for money and make a living.

It’s a global market and they are not lowering the standards of good writers – they are simply able to compete effectively in such a market.

Usually, these writers have to work very hard to prove to US clients they have top notch skills. Many start with a low bid and through sheer hard work, determination and the forging of solid relationships, work up to better rates. They also eliminate clients who are exploitive and there are many.

US clients benefit greatly from using these writers because they pay them much less than what they make.

The only thing I would want on Elance to make it better is a little button on each job posting that says “report slave labor request.”

Some employers ask prices that are a joke, and they ask them with the same compunction as one would have when asking for a glass of water in a restaurant. As if there’s nothing wrong with it! Then maybe they should be allowed to post but there should be some icon on the posting so serious programmers or writers or whatever know to just skip the posting, rather than waste time looking at it.

I’m not an expert but I’m sure there are laws against that sort of thing, but I don’t think they are enforced. Anyway, I certainly don’t like it.

To me, Enlace provides more answers than questions. The issues that I would have with them are their charges, especially connect and commissions. They are taking around 10% of my gross income; however this can be offset by the overall quality and regular flow of writing projects they provide, some of which have resulted in repeat business.
I am a native English speaker who lives in a non-English speaking country, am semi-retired and don’t need to earn a very high income, and don’t like to work too many hours a day. I sincerely believe that I fall into the ideal category as an E-lance service provider, and seriously wouldn’t envy anyone who would need to make a serious, US standards income from it.

Actually, my question is whether or not the sponsored dotcoms have been investigated or otherwise verified by about.com for legitimacy. Example: http://www.workathometop10jobs.com/
Is anyone qualified to know the answer?

J. Smith Adams makes $10,000+ per month on Elance. After losing tons of projects, he wrote 1 bid for me, I posted it and was awarded. Guy is crazy smart.

http://freelancemoney.wordpress.com/

I am a Web Designer/Motion Graphics/Multimedia, my website is http://www.zgraphik.com, I being trying to get work using Elance, I have a lot of samples, and the prices that I being ask are some how fair compare to whta the real prices are, I think that Elance is a big scam, I just can’t believe that no one wants to hire my services…..I think is a platform for people from Indian, China that are doing the work for pennies, is there any law in the USA that prevents this from happening?, this is why our economy is going down the drain, we have bunch of CEO’s, big companies outsourcing everything, paying two dollars an hour for work done by professionals, and I can’t believe that nobody says anything about it…..please.

I am on my second project through Elance. I am in between as far as if it is good or bad. My first project was a bomb. They person was from India. Every article that was submitted had to be edited more than once for proper Eglish and terminology. The project kept going and going. I finally just ended it. On this second project I had the person ask me what I wanted even after I though I had already specified it. I hate doing things over and over. I thought that is why I am hiring it to start with. I also feel that the expertise is not necessarily there. They claim to know the subject but now I’m not sure. I am not blaming Elance but so far my luck has not been good. I might as well do it myself.

Interested debate. I believe that there are basically two ways to use sites like Elance:

1) You NEED money fast. I am not talking about the ‘ethics’ of working for low money here. Sometimes you gotta do whatcha gotta do to pay the bills.

2) You want new work. At the end of the day no one is forcing you to work for less pay than you want. I browse the jobs once a week and only apply for the ones that will let me earn what I want. At top end I have been paid over $50 per hour, and I doubt I would ever grumble at that wage.

But don’t be too hard to judge writers who need to take those $5 per article jobs. We all need to make a living, and we have to start somewhere. Haven’t most of us worked in a bar/fast food chain for minimum wage to pay your bills?

I am new to Elance and I’d have to say that the results have been rather disappointing. I wish I had of thoroughly investigated Elance before I actually invested money into it. Basically, they are taking advantage of freelancers and letting buyers take advantage of us too.

How much logical sense does it make that they charge us just to bid_ whether we get the job or not. We are all providing a steady income for Elance – they get paid no matter who wins the bid, yet we keep paying out money for absolutely nothing (that is if we never win a bid). I think that those rare individuals who find success in Elance are just lucky – it’s really just like a lottery. Yes, it’s true that there are some lucky individuals who win the lottery. But for the majority of us – we lose.

It is an awesomely profitable business idea – the more people who bid on one project, the more money elance makes for each individual project. In addition, they get a cut of the final payout.

If I don’t get a bid this month that significantly exceeds the monthly fee, and also compensates me for all the time and effort I put into placing bids, then I am canceling them this month. I am going to use all my connects so that I can hurry up and move on as I learn from my mistake.

One last note – I disagree with the individual who said that “There are writers as good as, or better than, many US bidders/writers.” I don’t believe that it is possible for a non-native to write something better than a native. That would be the same as me claiming that I can write better content in India, even though I’ve spent all my life in Indian. I write well because I’ve been reading all my life. The best writers are heavy readers. So, unless you have read hundreds of American books, then I don’t see how you could possible write better English then an American. Come on, be honest, how many times have you read content on the internet and you absolutely KNOW that it could not have been written by an American?

Although I have yet to get a job on eLance, I’ve used oDesk with good success. Yes, rates are low for particular categories since many times, you are competing with overseas freelancers. However, for my work (Voice Over and Audio Editing), I’ve stuck to my rates and received them. Here are a few pointers:

1. Keep the pipeline full. You will quickly get discouraged if you bid on one or two jobs and then don’t win. You must bid or at least look for projects EVERY DAY! The more in the pipeline, the more will fall out in your favor.

2. Definitely apply for jobs that tell you there is a possibility of a long term relationship. I have had two projects turn into to work “offline”, that has continued for months. Like the article says, build your network.

3. Use PayPal! Of course you shouldn’t give out your bank account number, but sending money through PayPal is totally secure and super easy. If the buyer doesn’t have a PayPal account, they probably aren’t serious about using online freelancers.

This newly emerging networking model is one you must build. Like any freelancer, you wouldn’t go out on your own until you’ve built your network. Same thing applies here. It’s not a portal for permanent work but it is a way to build your network outside of the freelance websites.

I’ve been a senior designer and art director for two decades, and it amazes me how so many of these “new” services are not new at all. The bottom line is, you cannot get something for nothing. Companies that have so few resources and experiences that they are posting jobs at eLance for “under $500″ will ultimately get what they deserve. Why do you think so many of these people complain about poor turnaround and unqualified bidders?

Here’s an idea: Research the true market for work, know what a fair price is, and budget that into your company’s p&l. Stop trying to whittle the creative world down to the lowest possible price. Treat people and the work with respect and you will almost always get far more than you paid. But if you treat your industry with DISrespect, and somehow come to believe that all creative work is of roughly equal quality, then good riddance to you and your fly-by-night company.

There is an old adage that will hold true forever, no matter how many “new” web-based bidding companies come and go: Every client gets the creative work they deserve. If you are a company looking for essentially free creative work — and that means web sites for “less than $500″ — then you don’t deserve success in business.

eLace, to me, is for companies that are as clueless as the folks who bid there are desperate.

I’m getting a good amount of traffic to my writer mentoring blog about Elance. I’ve posted about my first experience there which was a positive experience and I also posted about a not-so-hot experience but that I’ve learned from. I’m still bidding there but much more cautiously. I’m paying $20 a month for 40 ‘connects’ and as long as each month still makes it worthwhile to pay that $20 I’ll keep doing it. Having many options for getting work is great and two of the gigs I’ve done there have been $50 articles that took me less than 30 minutes and got me stellar reviews. Selective bidding is important!

Is it “normal” to be paid $2 for a 350-word article and lose ALL rights to your work? I just read an ad for a copywriter on the freelance.interviewhelper.org website, and those are the terms of their “deal”. I am exploring the bidding sites as a means to build a business…but this one sounds like I might do as well building my own site with that subject content that I would have “given away” (IMHO)…

I’m not a writer, well actually I guess I am because I have published a fictional book, but I do not write for a living. I’m a web and graphic designer and I do bid on several freelance sites and I have to say I hate them with a vengeance.

Unfortunately the economy dictates I need to flesh out my work as much as I can but these sites do nothing but breed contempt and de-value any skilled industry to the level of sewage workers.

I have spent a lot of my own money going to collage and buying expensive software so I can provide a professional service and better myself in life. If all I was going to get paid for my hard work was less than minimum wage I wouldn’t have bothered.

When I see ridicules bids, for example…

I need a 10 page web site, I want it SEO’ed, I want a member log in area (so that’s a whole load of database programming) I want a flash and fantastic site and very professional! Don’t bother bidding unless you can produce excellent work or I won’t even bother reading your profile.

And how much is this chap going to pay for this? I look up his “budget”

$30 – $250

OK the above is at least a couple of weeks work, take taxes and the cut the freelance site takes and your not going to even get that much.

When I try to explain that its not even minimum wage if I could do it in 3 days you hear the old excuse..

”This is for people who want to get their profile and portfolio up and running or for a collage student who wants to earn some cash”

Utter rubbish on both his and the person bidding on it.

For those students that think it’s ok to help give them some cash by putting in crazy cheap bids it’s not.
You have to take some responsibility for your actions. One day you’re going to be a professional and married and have kids and a mortgage and will want to be paid more money than the girl or guy at the burger bar.
Good luck with that when for the past few years these sites and those that pittance bid on them have promoted a world wide expectation that.. “Hey, don’t pay the guy in the high street those prices, go to a freelance web site, there are always some students or part timers willing to work for a lot less for some extra cash”. Trust me, I have seen that expectation grow and grow over the past couple of years.

Also, I don’t mean to sound harsh but I can’t feel sorry for any student (I have been one myself) when they talk about needing to earn some extra money to help pay the way. If you want to do that, work at a burger bar or at the local bar. Don’t trash bid your future profession into the stone age because there are people with real bills, you know mortgages, gas, electricity, young sons and daughters to take care of and frankly, all of that blows what ever ‘debts’ you may have when you only have yourself to worry about. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it’s true.

Here is an analogy, you have a job and work real hard doing it, I come along and tell your boss I will do it for peanuts or for free and he gets rid of you the next day and hires me. That is exactly what you are doing by pittance bidding. It’s one thing to bid against peers on the same level. It’s another to see your chances swept away by someone wanting to build a portfolio or grab themselves a quick 40 bucks for the weekend party.

If you want to raise your portfolio, do what I did, sit down and write out a list of fake jobs and companies and develop that job. Who in the freelance industry checks on work? If you can physically show them you can do the job that is all you need.

Ok, I haven’t finished ranting yet…

Now let’s get onto the subject of the job poster. Let’s just put aside the time wasters, the idiots and the other freelancers that have taken on a job (probably on the same freelance site) and want to put it out for someone else to do and take a wage for doing nothing.

It’s about time that people realised that this attitude of “I want the best service but I want it cheap” is unsustainable. We live in a get what you want for peanuts society and I should not be able to buy a DVD player for 15$.

There has been a growing trend to outsource work to countries with cheaper economies and it’s rife in the freelance sites. Cheap labour, that is all that is on their mind.

I have this mantra that I try and get through to every business I can in my own country. Pay extra and support your countries economy.

You see if you work in the same country as me and you hire my services I have money. If enough people do that to me and other like me I become busy. I then may need to hire staff and pay them money. I can then take on more of this work from my fellow countrymen and hire more people.
All the time I’m also spending money in stationary, my house, going out, my business and this money is also going to people in my own country.

When plenty of us are doing this, that business that you have, that also relies upon people in the same country having money to spend, will get that money back.

Because several local freelancers are doing well and have hired staff, so now the local bar is also busy and now wants to put some money back into their business and make a website. What that? Your company furnishes bars and restaurants? You’re a web designer? Oh look your money has come back to you.

Ok that is a very simplistic example but the example is sound, just on a more complex level. Invest in your economy and you do well. If we keep on having this outsourcing to other countries for the cheap solution that money has left the country and gone for good.

Ok I’m done now and feel a lot better for it.

Oh, I just had to share this from another freelance site.

And I quote..

I think $50 is sufficient for this because of the short job and I can provide the current working model.

If you don’t have feedback, do not bid. I won’t even look at your bid without feedback.

I need this within 48/hours of accepting the job. If you’re late with submitting I will have to give negative feedback based on time lines. I’m telling you this upfront.

Very easy job…

Thank you.

Quite demanding hu? I mean your rating is in jeopardy if you’re little bit late. I love the way this guy knows how much I’m worth ($50 for 2 hours work). What I found most disgusting is that he works in the same field (he is just trying to offload some of his workload) and in his portfolio how much does he charge per hour?

$50

Wow, he must be awesome compared to the rest of us. His time is so much more valuable.

I agree with all the negatives that people say about the rates: it is voluntary slave labour. Also much of it is related to SEO, so you are NOT writing for people but for search engines: is there no market out there for quality writing
Rowland

http://www.passthehat.info

Well, I have been lurking around Elance for the past week as I have had a tough month during which I have lost a couple of well paying gigs. I have been quite demoralized and have been tempted to join Elance just so I can have some chance of landing something. I am a member of similar frelance site -www.ifreelance.com whose fees are more reasonable than Elance and I have actually landed some steady long term gigs from that site though there too there are gigs that pay the ridiculous $1 for a 500 word article.I am Indian but I live in US and know that I cant write for such rates. Moreover I am familiar with Indian writers but I dont know any quality writers based in urban India who are willing to work for these rates. Surprisingly when such projects are posted on ifreelance.com there are many US based American writers who bid on them. I really cant understand that.

Hi Guys,

Honestly saying Elance is the worst company i have ever worked with. They don’t have any ethics, no customer service at all and they would never abide by what they say.
Their executives would promise you something and the next day their VP Policy team would take bribe and would decide on favor of the other company. Then they would give you silly reasons that they took it for because of their poor english….In todays electronic age they would ask you to send a mail to their physical address in US and then they would say that they have not received it…..

The fact i am saying is true…their VP policy team actually asks for bribe…we had all the proofs that we are genuine but he took bribe from the other company( see this its important : the other company has 3 accounts on elance but even then they are allowed ) …on complaining we got a reply from elance saying that the problem is in your account and not theirs…..i am in the process of setting up a web page with all the communications i had with elance so that you can decide for yourself whether they are genuine or not…..its time we shlould stand against such companies and tell the government about their unfair practices.

Steve

I agree with you. As I said in my article Making freelance projects work with Elance, being a freelance contractor is hard. It takes time to find quality leads and even more time to develop those contacts into work. As your network and reputation build up, it becomes easier to find jobs. However, even with a good name and a strong contact list there are times when the resource pool is full and the projects are scarce. Just like your grandma told you, never have all of your eggs in one basket. In those lean times, it is good to have a second stream of project leads.

I have used elance, but i have had a lot more success using oDesk.com, once I got setup I found I got paid quicker and more often and there were a lot more long term jobs offered.

Question: If Elance has become a do more for nothing, then is there room for an “elite” type of service?

Same type of bidding, but for “higher end” work…

Would that even work in this economy?

If my question is not clear, then I will rephrase: If monster dot com is to ladders dot com, then elance dot com is to … what?

Just checking back in with these comments, as I recently linked here. To #30 oldgreywolf– thats a BIG NO, don’t bother. I’m sorry, I don’t have the control over ads on this site.

Everyone else, ahhhh, elance. Honestly, I just hired a bunch of writers off elance myself for a huge project that my company (GardenWall Publications) got from a big publisher. I feel and think and hope I paid the writers well- I think it was a MINIMUM of about 30 an hour, depending on hoe fast they worked. The writers I hired there were able to follow directions and string sentences together just fine. THey were all beginners, from North America, well-versed in English….

I think it’s a good place to START. But I also thank #40 fred and others for their perspective, too.

There’s a guy on Elance who is currently offering to pay $355 PER ARTICLE at a rate of 15 articles per week. This is for a permanent position.
He’s asking for a trial run of 5 articles to be written – in two days. The “winner” will be compensated for the 5 articles that were written and will be given the permanent position.
By my calculations someone’s gonna be earning a SMACKload of dollars, if this guy is for real.
Would YOU trust this not to be a scam?

But a lot of “test” jobs are scammy, hey?

1. Post a high-income job.
2. Get 500+ quality “test” articles from applicants.
3. Remove the post and keep the articles.

I think that (in general) some people are unrealistic on both sides. Posters expect everything for free, and bidders feel entitled to good and fast pay using only a keyword search. I know quite a few freelancers that do not operate legally. Many work under the table, and the IRS is cracking down on legal freelancers like me because of it.

Robot-feeders will never pay more for articles. Their blogs are usually created to generate hits and be sold, much like flipping a house. Google “buy a blog” for more info. Quality wastes money; the blog just has to look full. There are writers in all countries using automatic article writing software to fill that demand. This is a closed cycle. If it is your business, good luck to you. If it is not, then why look at it? I am not a coder or designer or robot-feeder.

For jobs outside robot articles and gimmie-free posts, eLance may be perfect for some folks. It has never been cost-beneficial for me, but I have known others who built a rating history on cheap projects with the free account and are now bidding privately for recurring clients. I get most of my clients offline, by picking up the phone and asking if the company hires freelancers.

My last client asked me to raise my rate — her company links expense to proficiency. There are clients out there that want to pay for quality. You just have to have the confidence to ask your rates and ignore the bottom feeders.

Considering the many writers responding in the comments, I’m pretty shocked at all of the typos. the most glaring is post #35 by Nikki. She states that she doubts non-Americans can write as well as Americans, but says is much less artfully and then goes on to use the word “then” instead of “than”. Not to mention, her writing skills are based upon her reading so many books. To quote:

“..a non-native to write something better than a native. That would be the same as me claiming that I can write better content in India, even though I’ve spent all my life in Indian.”

What??? This is an example of the person who accepts the $5 per article jobs.

I’ve been with Elance for two years and have become a Premier Provider in two categories (writing, sales and marketing). I’m listed as between #33 and #60 out of more than 25K service providers.

It took some time to get going, as I didn’t have a portfolio or feedback when I first started out but things are looking up now and my hourly minimum wage is up to $30/hour. (It should be higher, based on other Premier Provider minimums at Elance, but I’m not out to screw people, especially with the way the economy is right now — I’m just out to make a decent living for a work-at-home position.) I feel adequately compensated, especially when some of the fixed jobs I’ve bid on have been completed in just over an hour and the project paid $160! So I’m averaging well over $30/hour on some projects.

I wanted to post here to let you know that if the projects you bid on at Elance don’t get assigned to anyone, all you have to do it ask the person who listed it to please CANCEL the project listing, stating that if they do (it doesn’t cost them anything), you will get your connect back.

So those of you who feel “ripped off” by Elance are basically ripping yourselves off if you don’t stay in touch with your potential buyers and ask them to cancel the project if they aren’t going to award it.

I just learned this recently myself — and kicked myself across the room for not knowing it sooner. I’ve “thown away” literally thousands of connects in two years.

Don’t let it happen to you. I also think Elance is fair and the best site out there that I’ve seen; I would love to hear of others that are equally good or better from those of you who know and have used them. True, Elance takes 8.5% of every project, but that’s a write off on your taxes AND the company keeps track of everything so your accountant or you have a running record. That’s worth something.

I would love to hear back from anyone on these matters. You can reach me at kristine m smith AT m s n DOT com or via Elance. (And no, I’m not an Elance shill. I just think they get a bad rap a lot of the time that isn’t completely deserved.)

Blessings and best wishes to all!

We have used some of the freelance marketplace websites, and we would caution any true professionals from considering these websites as viable means of earning extra income despite the economic recession. I am not complaining at all about the websites’ business practices. I say this because when we signed up to use their services the terms of use are spelled out. Unfortunately, the terms are extensive, but they are there, and as professionals and entrepreneurs we are responsible for reading them. My problem is with most of the employers/buyers on the site. More often than not, you will encounter employers/buyers that will waste your time and, furthermore, do not have realistic expectations given the budget for their projects.

True enough, this happens in everyday business but not in this type of setting. When the government or professional businesses put out an RFP, more often than not, the contract is awarded to someone. In addition, when these entities select a winner, they consider experience and ability, as well as price. We spent 4 months on a few of these freelance marketplace websites. During that period more than 75% of the jobs we placed a bid on were never awarded to anyone. Of the jobs awarded, almost all went to the lowest bidder. Some of them actually went to bidders bidding below the employer’s/buy’s estimated budget range for the project. If you have been in business for any period of time you know that the employer/buyer estimate is almost always on the lower end of the estimated project cost.

For the most part, we believe that we did a good job of selecting the projects that we bided on. When we put a bid on projects, these were projects we were confident that we could do based on our experience, available personnel, and educational backgrounds. Furthermore, most of the times, we were not the highest bidder. In fact, we were usually a little above the average bid. Despite these facts, we had employers/buyers that had no background in technical writing, engineering, or technical management saying I did not understand their projects or saying my bid was unrealistic. Unrealistic? Did not understand?

Here is my background:
• I have worked in both industry (avionics, defense, and space companies) and in academia for more than 15 years.
• I have an M.S. in engineering management. If you are not aware of this degree, it is business degree focusing on a technology company’s needs and company needs in the area of technology.
• I have earned three engineering degrees (B.S., M.S., Ph.D.). My Ph.D. is from a top 5 graduate engineering university in the US according to US News and World Report.
• I have taught an electrical engineering class at that top 5 engineering school for more than 4 years as a graduate student ( it is rare for grad students to teach an actual class at this university) and was recognized as an outstanding student instructor one of those 4 years.
• I have a professional engineer (P.E.) license, which means it has been confirmed that: I have a minimum of 5 years of engineering experience, I have had 2 other licensed professional engineer and a previous manager confirm that I understand the fundamentals of engineering and my area of engineering practice and perform my duties to the highest ethical standards, and finally I passed two (not one, but two) eight hour engineering exams (both I passed the first time I took them).
• I have published technical papers. I have written technical articles for reputable engineering conferences, publications, and have given lectures at conferences and universities. All of these publications have been peer reviewed by other Ph.D.s, and the lectures have been before Ph.D.s and Ph.D. graduate students.

And this is just MY background. My business partner and our staff have their own impressive resumes in their respective areas and our company was chosen as a winner in the 2009 Office Depot “Survival of the Smartest” contest for our innovative cost savings methods we provide to our customers. These employers/buyers would be getting all of this at a little bit above the average bid, yet, believe it or not, we got only one employer/buyer willing to take our services at our price in over 50 bids on multiple sites.

In conclusion, recession or not, our company will not be using these sites in the future unless we are asked to by a legitimate employer/buyer. We have determined that the only way we can make money on these sites is if we placed the lowest bid every time and then compromised the quality of the work and provide little customer service on awarded projects. Needless to say, we are not willing to do that. My ethics will not allow me to lead our group to do this.

President
Calabrix Corporation

There are ways to decrease the amount of unreasonable/laughable projects that get graced with my eyes on Elance. Whenever I browse the lists, I always drag the “budget” slider up to “More than $1000″ (We are developers).

I find this is to be an ideal budget altitude to soar and search for something relatively serious. Sometimes if I’m up for laughs, I go back down to the “less than $500″s, where we get to have a chuckle at someone that wants a “Facebook clone” complete with what facebook offers…and more…for less than $500.

The kicker?…”Serious bidders please”.